Around The Living Room Floor

"I like to believe in a merciful God and not a judging One..."

It started with this and the movie Chronicle. I can't remember every word, but I thought that, instead of just arguing the points, I'd follow each point and see where it leads as people spoke. Soon, the movie ended and was forgotten, but the conversation remained.

I'll write what was said as I remember it like this. I'll write my responses below that like this.

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I like to believe in a merciful God and not a judging one.
Well, that's like saying you want to believe in an IRS that doesn't tax. The fact is that there is nothing wrong with God judging people. Condemning is another matter, but He could do that too. A tree is known by its fruit; if you're bearing fruit that says you're something that you don't want to be perceived as, then change your actions.


Some things can't be taken word for word.
Well, yeah, but then there are other things to consider.


Well, some people like to go "this is fact" and others like to go "this is not fact". How am I supposed to know...?
Raise your hand if you're jewish. Okay, so the early Law of the OT was given to the jewish people. We're not jewish so a lot of their laws do not apply. The Ten Commandments are universal; stealing is never okay, lying is never ok, and so on. But dietary laws, blending fabric, working on the sabbath... these are in another category of things that we are not subject to because we are not jewish. Things like wearing earrings don't matter because in this culture, it doesn't mean that we worship a particular God. In that time in the Bible, it did. Same with tattoos. Read Peter's dream in Acts. It tells you a similar thing. When the Gospel was brought to the gentiles, it was brought with as few restrictions as possible, but a strong foundation.


This is why I prefer science. It makes sense. At least they are humble about what they don't understand. Like the creation of the universe or other things.
Well, let's discuss this. So science can only speak to things that are observable and repeatable. It can't talk about morality or the creation of the universe. 


For the sake of the length of this particular point, I'll skip some of this convo and move to a particular point.

The thing about science is that it tells us what things are and even how they are, but it can't say anything more than that. The thing about religion and philosophy is that it starts to talk about you. What you should do. What you shouldn't. Science can't tell you premarital sex is wrong and you shouldn't be drunk on weekends. God can. We don't like that idea. It's too personal and we always become uncomfortable with these things.


Where do morals come from anyway?
Well, if I take something that belongs to you, then why do you become upset about it?
It's a survival instinct passed down from our ancestors.
Well, earlier we said that things evolve out of the system if they are necessary, right? In that case, what about this? What should offend me, scientifically, about having something of mine taken from me that isn't needed for my survival? Why am I upset when I discover I have been deceived? What explanation is there for this if these are genetic, inborn instincts?


Religion is dangerous to a people in terms of discovery and progress.
Interesting. Most inventors have been religious. The most noted person in the civil rights movement was a pastor. Most people felt that their ability to invent was a calling from God and that it should be followed through to the end. Religion could hamper progress in one way, however. Science, by its nature, does things simply because they can be done without questioning whether or not it should be. Religion questions this and may not make advances in certain areas, believing it wrong to step into areas that should be better left to God.



Totally annoyed with people saying that others are going to hell about things.
Well, yeah. I agree there. Only God should have that judgment and as such, I've left that with him.


Well, what about people that commit suicide?
Nothing in the text about it. Nothing that can even be interpreted that way. I'm not God to pass judgment on the people that have. Again, let's not put words in God's mouth.
Well, I heard that and other crazy things in church; in fact, that's why I don't go.
That's silly. I should avoid every drive thru, every grocery store, every place other people are if I'm going to not go somewhere just because someone said or did some nonsense.



This conversation went on for hours. Let me ask you: when was the last time you were comfortable enough in your faith in God to sit down with someone of faith or not and just have open conversations like these, following where they went with no intent other than the conversation?


The fact is, we plant seeds and God waters. Yes, I believe that God may give us the unction (a strong sense of knowing influenced by the Holy Ghost) to say something like "Repent and be saved", but most times, it's the small bits of conversation, the building of relationships, the random things that you do to redeem a moment after watching a movie.... I had five men drawn into conversation for two hours on this subject that they would never have spoken to on their own.

My final comment was to the atheist in the room: it's funny that of all the people you know and places you could live, you have moved into a house of religious people.


We talked about hitler, the crusades, the founding fathers, morality, where God came from, pondered whether evolution came first or creation, then worked out together and laughed for a while. This is the crux of Christian life and witness. Not that we have tally marks up to the ceiling of how many people we've spoken the message to, but how we influence people for the good, day by day, making converts and then disciples as we look at the world together.

Yes, disciples. Getting people saved and not discipling them means nothing.